tS

04/12/2003 1:28 AM

Cybermen history

Has anybody pieced together a history of the Cybermen? I've seen
similar things online for Daleks, but never seen one for the Cybermen.
I'm most interested to know where the Tomb cybermen fit in.....


This topic has 11 replies

SP

Shannon Patrick Sullivan

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 04/12/2003 1:28 AM

04/12/2003 5:22 AM

Long ago in an English winter, Sedge said:
> Has anybody pieced together a history of the Cybermen? I've seen
> similar things online for Daleks, but never seen one for the Cybermen.
> I'm most interested to know where the Tomb cybermen fit in.....

David Banks did so in his "Doctor Who: Cybermen" book. I wrote something
similar for a local fanzine once, long long ago.

IIRC, Banks' idea was that the Cybermen eventually emerged from the Tomb
in their more modern-looking aspect (which is to say, their Eighties
costume) and "Earthshock" and "Attack Of The Cybermen" followed. (Banks'
book doesn't include "Silver Nemesis", which was broadcast around the
time of publication.)

Shannon

--
| Shannon Patrick Sullivan | [email protected] |
+---------------------------------+---------------------------------+
/ Doctor Who: A Brief History of Time (Travel) go.to/drwho-history \
\__ We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars __/

jJ

[email protected] (J2rider)

in reply to Shannon Patrick Sullivan on 04/12/2003 5:22 AM

05/12/2003 8:11 PM

TIME LINK by Jon Preddle has IT ALL!

En

"Emmemm"

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 04/12/2003 1:28 AM

13/12/2003 6:18 AM

"Sedge" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Shannon Patrick Sullivan <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > David Banks did so in his "Doctor Who: Cybermen" book. I wrote
something
> > similar for a local fanzine once, long long ago.
>
> <gulp> you mean actually buy something? ;)
>
> > IIRC, Banks' idea was that the Cybermen eventually emerged from the
Tomb
> > in their more modern-looking aspect (which is to say, their Eighties
> > costume) and "Earthshock" and "Attack Of The Cybermen" followed.
(Banks'
> > book doesn't include "Silver Nemesis", which was broadcast around
the
> > time of publication.)
>
> So, all cybermen stories have been pretty much in chronological order?
> i.e. all the stories broadcast prior to Tomb, were set before Tomb,
> and all stories broadcast after Tomb are set after the Cybermen escape
> from the Tomb?

The Tenth Planet is set in December 1986.

The Moonbase is set in 2070.

The Tomb of the Cybermen is set 500 years after the Cybermen "vanished".
This could be before Earthshock (see below) especially if the devastated
Earth of the 22nd century lost its records of 21st-century cyber
attacks.

The Wheel in Space is set in the 21st century (or very early 22nd) as
Zoe was born in the 21st Century. Might be set before The Moonbase.

The Invasion is set in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

Revenge of the Cybermen may be set in the late 29th or early 30th
century, or before 2526. Set centuries after the Cyberwar that almost
destroyed Voga - the Cybermen are thought to have been destroyed.

Earthshock is set in 2526. It seems to be set after Tomb (the Doctor
tried to remind the humans on the freighter of the Tombs being
discovered) and perhaps after Revenge, if the Cyberscope does not show
Tom Baker's image from the future by some strange time-travelling
means!.

Attack of the Cybermen's Telos scenes are probably set after Earthshock.

Silver Nemesis is set in 1988.

--
Frankymole

PP

ProNoia

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 04/12/2003 1:28 AM

04/12/2003 12:12 PM

google is your friend...

http://www.geocities.com/joekano/cybermen/timeline.htm

Sedge wrote:
> Has anybody pieced together a history of the Cybermen? I've seen
> similar things online for Daleks, but never seen one for the Cybermen.
> I'm most interested to know where the Tomb cybermen fit in.....
>

FC

"Finn Clark"

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 04/12/2003 1:28 AM

13/12/2003 4:59 PM

Emmemm wrote:

> The Tenth Planet is set in December 1986.

Yup.

> The Moonbase is set in 2070.

Yup.

> The Tomb of the Cybermen is set 500 years after the
> Cybermen "vanished". This could be before Earthshock
> (see below) especially if the devastated Earth of the
> 22nd century lost its records of 21st-century cyber
> attacks.

The Tomb Cybermen themselves remember The Moonbase and say they've been
asleep for 500 years, which dates the story to at least 2570. When one
takes into account Cyberwars from the 22nd and 23rd centuries (in the books,
ironically in part inspired by David Banks's Cyber-history), it looks as if
Tomb of the Cybermen is set in the 31st century (or possibly even later!).
For the half-millennium after The Tenth Planet, they're actually busy little
beavers. This hypothesis fits quite well with Revenge (approx. 29th
century), in which the Doctor describes the Cybermen as a bunch of leftover
relics from a long-forgotten species.

Of course it means that the Cybermen in Earthshock must have time-travelled
to have images from Tomb on their cyberscope, but we knew that already since
they have pictures from Revenge too.

> The Wheel in Space is set in the 21st century (or very
> early 22nd) as Zoe was born in the 21st Century. Might
> be set before The Moonbase.

Lawrence Miles's novels strongly imply the 2030s, while Lance Parkin's
History suggests a post-Seeds of Death date. (But then again his date for
Seeds contradicts Transit and GodEngine, the latter of which was published
just too late to be included in his analysis.)

> The Invasion is set in the late 1960s or early 1970s.

And there we're into the thorny issue of UNIT dating!

> Revenge of the Cybermen may be set in the late 29th or
> early 30th century, or before 2526.

The former, if we trust the Doctor's analysis in Ark in Space.

> Set centuries after the Cyberwar that almost destroyed
> Voga - the Cybermen are thought to have been
> destroyed.

Yup. Could be the war that the Cybermen were trying to avert in Earthshock.

> Earthshock is set in 2526. It seems to be set after Tomb
> (the Doctor tried to remind the humans on the freighter of
> the Tombs being discovered)

Interesting data point! I can't remember that offhand; I'll look out for it
next time I watch the story. Of course it's not conclusive evidence; the
Doctor has dropped anachronistic clangers before...

> Attack of the Cybermen's Telos scenes are probably set
> after Earthshock.

I can't remember whether it was me, Mick Gair or a combination of the two
who came up with the following theory, but... what if the Cybermen in
Attack have been following the time corridor that the Daleks created in
Resurrection of the Daleks? The 7th Doctor describes time corridors as
"nasty and primitive" and perhaps that's because they damage time in
precisely this way, hanging around even after their creators have been blown
to smithereens. [In Resurrection, the Daleks can't deactivate the corridor
but can only shut down their entrances to it at each end.] What's more,
Lytton has been contacting the future (which he'd presumably be doing by
exploiting the Daleks' now-unused time corridor)... and the people he
contacts are the Cryons on Telos!

Since the contemporary bits of Resurrection and Attack are only separated by
a year (1985 & 1986 respectively) it doesn't seem unreasonable to suppose
that their futuristic eras are only one year apart too. Of course we then
have the problem of dating the Dalek stories, beside which dating the
Cyberstories is a walk in the park...

Of course the Cybermen *think* they've been piloting their stolen timeship,
but we saw in Resurrection (and the Frontios cliffhanger) what effect a time
corridor can have even on a fully functioning TARDIS.

> Silver Nemesis is set in 1988.

Other Cyberdates:

1. Illegal Alien (PDA) is set during World War Two.
2. Iceberg (NA) is set during the early years of the 21st century... 2009
or so, I think.
3. Killing Ground (MA) is set during the 22nd century, shortly after the
same author's Time of Your Life.
4. The Good Soldier (comic strip) is set in the 1950s.
5. A bunch of back-up strips from the days of the Weekly, all starring
Invasion-style Cybermen and appearing to depict a sizeable and active
Cyber-empire, might perhaps be dated to the 24th or 25th centuries.
6. There have been various Geneses of the Cybermen: The Cybermen
(Barnes-Salmon comic strip), Spare Parts (Davison Big Finish audio), The
World Shapers (Morrison-Ridgeway comic strip), which quite frankly could be
set almost anywhen. Pick your own date (though there are internal clues
with the two comic strips I mentioned). It's possible that the Cybermen may
have have separate geneses, evolving spontaneously on different worlds at
different times.
7. There's a bit of Cyberhistory in The Crystal Bucephalus (10,764 AD or
something like that.)

Finn Clark.

SP

Shannon Patrick Sullivan

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 04/12/2003 1:28 AM

12/12/2003 7:46 AM

Long ago in an English winter, Sedge said:
> So, all cybermen stories have been pretty much in chronological order?
> i.e. all the stories broadcast prior to Tomb, were set before Tomb,
> and all stories broadcast after Tomb are set after the Cybermen escape
> from the Tomb?

I believe so, except for "The Invasion".

Shannon

--
| Shannon Patrick Sullivan | [email protected] |
+---------------------------------+---------------------------------+
/ Doctor Who: A Brief History of Time (Travel) go.to/drwho-history \
\__ We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at the stars __/

RD

R Dan Henry

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 04/12/2003 1:28 AM

19/12/2003 10:50 PM

On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 16:59:15 -0800 (PST), in a fit of madness "Finn
Clark" <[email protected]> declared:

>Of course it means that the Cybermen in Earthshock must have time-travelled
>to have images from Tomb on their cyberscope, but we knew that already since
>they have pictures from Revenge too.

Or they've tapped into the data logs of somebody else who has time
traveled. Or they can scan through time, without having travel ability.
Maybe they even are using mind-reading technology on the Doctor.

--
R. Dan Henry
[email protected]

tS

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 04/12/2003 1:28 AM

12/12/2003 3:53 AM

Shannon Patrick Sullivan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> David Banks did so in his "Doctor Who: Cybermen" book. I wrote something
> similar for a local fanzine once, long long ago.

<gulp> you mean actually buy something? ;)

> IIRC, Banks' idea was that the Cybermen eventually emerged from the Tomb
> in their more modern-looking aspect (which is to say, their Eighties
> costume) and "Earthshock" and "Attack Of The Cybermen" followed. (Banks'
> book doesn't include "Silver Nemesis", which was broadcast around the
> time of publication.)

So, all cybermen stories have been pretty much in chronological order?
i.e. all the stories broadcast prior to Tomb, were set before Tomb,
and all stories broadcast after Tomb are set after the Cybermen escape
from the Tomb?

Incidentally, is there any reason why Pertwee had no Cyber-stories?
Did the story editors during this time dislike Cybermen, or is it just
that no stories involving them were written?

En

"Emmemm"

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 12/12/2003 3:53 AM

13/12/2003 6:11 AM

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> In article <[email protected]>,
> [email protected] (Sedge) wrote:
>
> >
> > Incidentally, is there any reason why Pertwee had no Cyber-stories?
>
> They wrote one but he left so Tom Baker did it instead...

Well he did tangle with the Cybermen in "The Five Doctors". There were
also some in the Miniscope but luckily(?) he didn't get into their
section of the scope.

--
Frankymole

g

in reply to [email protected] (Sedge) on 12/12/2003 3:53 AM

12/12/2003 5:00 AM

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Sedge) wrote:

>
> Incidentally, is there any reason why Pertwee had no Cyber-stories?

They wrote one but he left so Tom Baker did it instead...

jr

[email protected] (remove hormel to reply)

in reply to [email protected] on 12/12/2003 5:00 AM

12/12/2003 6:21 AM

>> Incidentally, is there any reason why Pertwee had no Cyber-stories?

I believe the producer at the time didn't like continuity-conscious stories.
It was a long time before he was persuaded to do a Dalek story.
o--c
___
/__ __ __ \ / _ __ __
/ |_ |_ |_ \ /\ / | | |_/ |_/|_
(_/ |_ | | \/ \/ |_| | \ | \ _|
---c
Building the foundations for a spookier tomorrow...


You’ve reached the end of replies